Alcohol, Opioids, Dopamine Addiction

Alcohol, Opioids, Dopamine Addiction
The Spine Who Nagged Me
Alcohol, Opioids, Dopamine Addiction

Sep 19 2022 | 00:45:22

Episode 8 September 19, 2022 00:45:22

Hosted By

Dr. Chase Horton

Show Notes

Dr. Joey Jones and Dr. Chase Horton share their past experiences and love/hate relationship with alcohol. They discuss our dopamine dependent society, opioid horror stories, and reveal a few college party mishaps.


Dr. Chase's Lunch/Recovery Smoothie Recipe:

2 scoops standard process veg-e protein

4 stalks celery

1 cucumber

2" piece ginger root

1/2 lemon, juiced

3 cups spinach

2 green apples



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Dr. Chase Horton YouTube Channel

*Disclaimer* The opinions expressed in this podcast are not intended to be used as personal medical advice. Discuss any new health practices with your personal healthcare practitioner.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 00:00:20 I had an interesting patient last week who came to see me because he was having a lot of symptoms that were making him feel uncomfortable. You know, he was always bloated. He was overweight. He was having a lot of digestive issues. He sweating all the time. He had a lot of skin issues when I'm doing his health history, we're going through. And I get to the section where I'm asking about his social history. Are you smoking? No. You drinking a little bit. Oh yeah. How much you drinking? And he started to tell me, you know, he drinks in the morning. He drinks at lunch. He drinks in the evening. He's a, a high functioning alcoholic essentially. And then I went into it with him. I was talking about some of the hormonal changes that chronic consumption of alcohol, the effect that, that can have on the body. What have you seen with that with your patients? Speaker 1 00:01:03 Well, first thing with patients, when, you know, when you ask that question, do you drink, uh, yeah. Doc a little bit. Well, it's kind of, uh, wide margin there. One person's mild to moderate, maybe another person's severe. Right? So, um, you gotta elaborate down that sometimes some people will say, no, I don't drink at all DACA, you know, which may be a glass of wine today, or maybe a beer or two to them. That's not drinking. So you have to kind of, um, get that out of them sometimes. Exactly what that little bit is. Right. Cause a lot of times we don't always correlate some of the more simple symptoms with, um, alcohol use. You know, I know I found that with myself, I quit drinking approximately a year and a half ago after what I considered to be mild drinking for quite a number of years. Speaker 1 00:02:03 And I started to realize that a lot of things were improving that I didn't think were directly related to alcohol. And I said, one day, Hey, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a list of that stuff because it just kept popping up. Wait a minute, I haven't had that problem. I haven't had this symptom, you know, and you know, 12 months, well that's about the time that I could quit drinking alcohol. I just simply didn't put those things together. So I said, let me grab a sheet of paper and think about this and write it down. And I came up with a list that encompassed quite a bit more than I thought, what Speaker 2 00:02:38 Did you see? Speaker 1 00:02:40 Well, one problem that I had a year and a half worth of what they call dry eye might have been been longer than that. And I think it's kind of an oxymoron because basically my eyes watered all the time and it wasn't uncommon for me, you know, to dab a tissue over my eye, maybe every couple minutes or so. And I really didn't correlate that with drinking until I realized that when I stopped drinking my dry hour of my watering eyes, if you will gone another one was an ex eczema issue that I had. Hold on. Speaker 2 00:03:13 How long did that take to go away once you stopped? Speaker 1 00:03:16 Well, to be honest with you, I didn't really correlate the two, so it could have been a couple weeks. It could have been a month. It was just one of those things where I just realized, Hey, wait a minute. I'm not doing that anymore. It bothered me a lot the last year or so because I was treating it all the time. I even went to so-called professional help, if you will, um, to get a professional opinion on that. And they even gave me this treatment protocol that was rather expensive, to be honest with, you said it was correlated just for that. And, um, didn't help. So I was frustrated with that. Again, they call it dry eye and of course they explained to me that, you know, the glands and the eyes and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But once I stopped drinking completely dis disappeared almost instantly. I say instantly because I didn't pick it up initially. Right. The other thing too, I had an ex eczema issue with my skin that I didn't correlate with Speaker 2 00:04:11 That. So what you said, you, you had a treatment protocol that you did. What was that supplements or what was that? Speaker 1 00:04:16 Uh, no, it was rather expensive procedure where they actually, I don't remember the exact term of it. They hooked me up with this device that was designed to blow air into the orbit of my eye while this vacuum type of mild suction was supposed to help open up the clans or something like Speaker 2 00:04:39 That, that was supposed to help the dry eye. But the actual cause of the dry eye was alcohol intake. Speaker 1 00:04:45 Well, I correlate the, I'm not gonna say that was actual cause, cause we don't know the etiology behind that are the cause of why a couple things, you know? Um, we're not really sure. It's just Speaker 2 00:04:53 Could be, could be different for everybody, right? Speaker 1 00:04:55 Well that's right. I mean, this is what happened. I, this is what I noticed. Okay. The other one was a skin related issues and a form of eczema that had popped up on my leg that I didn't know where it came from. And um, I even went to a dermatologist buddy of mine and I said, Hey, look, look at this what's up. And I even asked him, I said, Hey doc, could this be associated maybe with alcohol consumption? And uh, he said, you know, we're Buddie he said, Joey, he said, you know, it's skin. We really don't know. Of course I couldn't accept that. So I said, okay, well, come on now. This is, you know, this is what you do. I went and picked up my Merck manual, which is sort of the Bible for, you know, just about any medical diagnosis. And I looked it up and I found my eczema. Speaker 1 00:05:37 I looked up and I said, under the etiology and it said unknown. I'm like, well, what, so that was a little frustrating that cleared up within the first 21 days after I stopped drinking. Boom gone. So my correlation was, yes, that was related. Think about it though. What is, you know, the liver, it's a filter, right? So if it's stressed and it's, um, um, straining, if you will, it's gotta get rid of those toxin somewhere. And the skin is the most likely place. That's sort of the same thing. The acne works along the same lines. Right. Speaker 2 00:06:12 So if it's busy clearing on alcohol, then it doesn't really have the time or the capacity to clear out the other toxins Speaker 1 00:06:19 In the body. Yeah. Obviously it was stressed didn't Speaker 2 00:06:20 Know. So, so then the skin steps up and kind of picks up what the liver can't do. Speaker 1 00:06:24 Yeah. Well, somewhere, you know, the elimination system somehow, you know, if you think about it, we talk about the fact the immune system is encompass of the whole body. So yeah. Uh, it's gotta get out somewhere. Speaker 2 00:06:34 So you would say that the skin could be kind of like a secondary form of detox for the body. That's why we sweat. So the liver being the primary detox organ, and a lot of people don't realize that the skin is an organ and I would consider that a secondary detox organ. And that's why a lot of times when a patient comes to me for functional medicine and they have skin related issues, whether that be eczema or hives or something along those lines, my first thought is to look at the liver, see what's going on there. Speaker 1 00:07:01 Well, you know, we talked a couple weeks ago about that 21 day cleanse. I crossed the board here again, that 21 day cleanse will get rid of so many symptoms that allow us to actually kind of peel back the layers of onion. Just with 21 days. A lot of skin related issues will clear themselves up because a lot of them are associated with either allergic reactions to something like gluten or alcohol or some other allergy that we're consuming. Right? So a lot of that, like it did with me 21 days and literally they'd disappeared. Speaker 2 00:07:36 Yeah. Something that's affecting the function of the liver, no matter what that is, can show up in the skin. Speaker 1 00:07:40 The liver are some other part of the body's detox system. Exactly. Speaker 2 00:07:44 This episode is brought to you by standard process. Standard process recognizes the negative impact that the standard American diet has on our overall health. They believe that processed foods deplete our food sources of the rich nutrition once found in them standard process understands that good health comes from good nutrition and the best nutrition comes from whole foods. They dedicate their time to perfecting the production of whole food based supplements from the soil use to grow crops to the manufacturing processes used to create the supplement. They have always focused on putting vitality into every bottle. And that's why we recommend standard process 21 day purification program to our patients. If your body could use a reset order your program today at us dot full And that's also a good point, Joey is that the liver is a detox organ. So think about what alcohol actually is. Speaker 2 00:08:45 If the consumption of alcohol can affect your liver's ability to detox, then that means that alcohol is a toxin, right? So I've always wondered all the quote studies out there that say that alcohol in certain quantities can improve your health. Whether that be a glass of red wine, or they say maybe a beer a day or whatever it may be saying that yeah, yeah. Drink some alcohol to improve your health, to extend your life. I've always called BS on that because explain to me how consuming a toxin can extend your life. I don't buy it. Speaker 1 00:09:19 Well, you know, here again, you might consider yourself mild consumption, which I consider myself mild consumption, but obviously it wasn't right. I will agree with a couple things. I think one of the, the key aging protocols for us and one of our health related issues are stress from the adrenal glands, cortisol from our lifestyles of stress. They say that maybe a glass of wine, or maybe one alcoholic drink a day tends to take the edge off that might help people who have a problem with a lot of anxiety or stress. Now we're going to the gym perhaps through the same thing or some other formal exercise. Yes. But here I can see the correlation with there red wine and Rero what Speaker 2 00:10:05 Is it called? Resveratrol phytosterols antioxidants. I understand all that, but there are a lot of other juices you could drink. They would have maybe a better effect without the toxin. Well, Speaker 1 00:10:13 Now, you know, that's, that's a fact, some people like the effect that they might get occasionally, whether it's just to take the edge off or whatever. So, and you know, we all know people who lived in 90, 95 with a glass of vodka and no cigar. Right. So, I mean, I think, um, that's not a cookie cutter set, um, protocol for everybody. But, um, Speaker 2 00:10:38 I mean, trust me, I, I understand the appeal, you know, I, uh, I, I certainly enjoyed my alcohol for, for a lot of years and, uh, nothing against it, but I just don't want people to believe that it's a health cocktail. Like some studies might have you believe. And here's the thing, here's the thing, Joey, there's a study out there to support anything you wanna believe. Oh sure. And that's why when people say things like trust the science, follow the science, I have to think, you know, well, why are there studies that exactly conflict each other? You know, there can be a study that says this, and there's also a study that says the exact opposite. So when someone says that they trust the science, I, I, I err on the side of caution when it comes to that, because science can be easily manipulated to say whatever you wanted to say or whatever, the person that paid for that study wants it to say, Speaker 1 00:11:27 Let's say maybe my difficulty might be trusting the scientist because that, which truly is science is science. But yet a lot of times they're after an outcome before they even get started. Speaker 2 00:11:41 That's why, uh, a company can pay for a study to be done or pay, uh, a lab to complete a set of studies. And if eight studies report a negative result, they'll pick the two studies that stated a positive result and just completely discard the eight studies that opposed their projected viewpoint. And that's how it can be manipulated. It's called cherry picking data happens every day with pharmaceutical companies. It's something that we need to be aware of. Well, Speaker 1 00:12:08 You know, uh, I think it was far back as 40, 50 years ago, a lot of your research was done by nonprofit companies, right? That didn't have a dog in the hunt. So to say, well, now a lot of your pharmaceutical related type studies are being done through medical schools, which are funded by that particular pharmaceutical. So the outcome will eventually come out in the favor of those who are funding it. And it's sad, but that's, that's that's reality today. Somebody proved me wrong on that one. I'll be more than happy to hear otherwise. But getting back to the alcohol though, I noticed like some things that, um, might be considered rather odd. You know, we talked about the eczema and, and that cleared up. I also, you know, I, I like to train often during the week and my recovery time was just slowing down. Speaker 1 00:12:53 And that's one of the other things I noticed shortly after I had quit drinking alcohol within a matter of a month or two, my recovery time was so much better. My muscle soreness was just almost gone hair, my hair improved. I mean, this is another thing that became a lot less brittle. And these are things that probably during the time of consumption, I wasn't really paying attention to so much. It was really wild. And that's why I said, Hey, I gotta, I'm gonna write this stuff down. I'm gonna sit down and make a list of these things. I battered with vertigo for two years prior to stopping alcohol. Really? Yes. You know, something that I treat very successfully here, we with the upper cervical and inner ear, but that's not always the calls. And in my case, apparently dad had the etiology there to some degree was the alcohol consumption because I haven't had a problem with that in the 18 months that I've quit Speaker 2 00:13:44 Drinking. So once you cut it out, the vertigo went away, Speaker 1 00:13:46 Vertigo gone vertigo. And I developed that probably two or three years ago. I remember that I woke up one morning, the Monday after Christmas, Christmas was on that Sunday. Cause I was going to work, woke up and you know, wintertime is dark. So I stand up I'm outta bed. And it was like, somebody just pushed me right back onto the bed. Boom. Like, no, you're not getting up yet. And I was like, whoa, what is this? And that was my first bout with vertigo. And it's not fun. And for those people who have very bad cases and then, you know, they have to be driven here cause they can't even drive a vehicle. I feel for them, this is another one of those things, which just suddenly I haven't had it in 18 months now. So I have to correlate that. Uh, cause, Speaker 2 00:14:28 Well that's, that's huge. Oh Speaker 1 00:14:29 Yes. Oh yes. Another huge thing. Acid reflux. If I went out and had either a tequila or a whiskey forget about it. I mean, especially if I ate some chicken wings, which those things just seem to go together so well before I could even get home, I would be battling acid reflux. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:14:46 I remember you used to burb a lot. I don't notice that anymore. Speaker 1 00:14:48 That was my go to, you know, some people get the acid reflux issues. I got the hiccups really bad. I mean debilitating. And um, I haven't had a case of those, uh, since I stopped and that's 18 months ago then, you know, and here again, I didn't have this five years ago. So I think it was accumulation of time. Uh, a lot of people will say, well, you know, it's hard to correlate those things because let's just say, somebody says, well, I've been drinking for 20 years and I just started getting this acid reflux problem now. Well, yeah, that's how long the toxic city can take. And that's the other thing with acid reflux. We talked about the fact that that's not too acid stomach, it's too alkaline and what you want, Toline your stomach real. Keep consuming alcohol over a period of time. You're gonna be extremely outlined. And um, amazing how that, what do we got there? Half a dozen symptoms that could be treated by all kinds of medications, if you would just by stopping a issue that not directly correlated with, from most people with consumption of alcohol. Speaker 2 00:15:46 Yeah. It is a societal social thing. It is so common. You know, it's something that we enjoy doing together. It loosens you up, you have social anxiety, it gets you feeling a little more loose and sometimes you can think you're a little funnier than you are. And then I've, I've been, I've been there, but I'll tell you, you know, I hardly drink anymore either. And what it used to do to me that I noticed was more had to do with neurological symptoms, brain fog. Speaker 1 00:16:10 Oh, big Speaker 2 00:16:10 Time, big time. You know, I made it through college and I made it through chiropractic school with what I would consider now kind of a suppressed memory, suppressed ability to think as clearly as I can now. Yeah. Hangover. And it wasn't really an all day hangover because even in school, I was really only drinking on weekends, but that would affect me all throughout the week. It would be something that stuck with me, not just when I felt hungover, it was something that would linger in my brain for days to come. And it was anxiety. I wouldn't call it full on depression, but it was definitely affecting my mood in a negative way. And I see looking back now how it affected relationships that I was in and pretty much the only time that we would the butt heads for when we were drunk or drinking. If I remove alcohol from the equation for a lot of the relationships I look back on in my life, they would've gone a lot more smoothly. Like mine is now Katie and I really almost never drink. And especially now while she's pregnant, <laugh> we get along so well. And I, I have to think that that's, that is a component because I think that if I'm drinking enough, I can find something to, to be unhappy about. Speaker 1 00:17:16 Well, an interesting thing there is that talking about the COVID lockdown and the amount of serotonin retake inhibitors that were being prescribed like 3000 fold. So you had all this depression associated with that. And where did a lot of people turn to? Well, I think alcohol consumption went up like 500% in that first year. Right? So we're taking something because we're depressed that is actually causing even greater depression. When those receptor sites aren't filled. And like you were talking about the anxiety, this is a thing about alcohol. It feels anxiety, receptor sites, a lot like a Xanax does along the exact same line. So you go to a weekend with your college buddies, for example, and you consume quite a bit. And then you go to get on that plane on Sunday afternoon and you say, you know what, I'm gonna cut off that alcohol now. And then you and those receptor sites have been filled with the alcohol Friday, Saturday, and Sunday morning. Then you go to get on that plane now. And those receptor sites are starting to empty out. And I used to have a problem with anxiety and panic, getting on the airplane because of the fact that these receptor sites were no longer filled and the same thing could happen Monday morning are Sunday night trying to sleep. That was another issue. Speaker 2 00:18:29 That's what Dr. Andrew Huberman says about dopamine, how we're as a country, we're addicted to dopamine and how alcohol gives you a big release of dopamine, of course. But once you, uh, stop that intake, you know, the next morning, that's the hangover because you're in such a dopamine deficit. So not only are you down to baseline, you're below baseline, you're in a dopamine deficit. Yes. So even just to get back to baseline, that's why hair, the dog works. You know, you get a couple more drinks in the next morning and you don't feel as hungover, but that's what I would feel long term is that I was in a dopamine deficit because I was drinking on the weekend. So throughout the next week, I just didn't quite feel back to normal. Speaker 1 00:19:11 And for me, I noticed it was the same thing. It was usually about Wednesday, maybe a couple workouts at the gym to actually get the weekend off of you and clear it out of your head. Right, exactly. And then maybe back and then it long came Friday again. Okay. The golf course and know, so what a cycle, but it's interesting as you were talking about that, and as I was stopping my alcohol, a lot of my close friends would say, well, Joey, how's your sleep. It's a, it's funny. And even patients would ask me, how's your sleep like, that was that one little thing they wanted to know about. And it's true because I sleep so much better. One of the reasons is I don't have that blood sugar waking me up at, uh, two or three o'clock in the morning. Cause I get the blood sugar low from the alcohol before you go to bed. Speaker 2 00:19:50 Right. Well, tell us how alcohol affects blood sugar. Speaker 1 00:19:53 Well, again, if you think about it, it's a form of sugar, right? It, uh, isn't that much difference than if it was a glass orange juice or a Coke, all right. The elevates blood sugar. So when you consume that alcohol and you go to bed, the, um, blood sugar that you spiked, you know, during the day, or certainly a lot of times we tend to consume a couple drinks before we go to bed. Well, it spikes that up. And then when the blood, when the blood sugar drops, Speaker 2 00:20:19 You get a crash, Speaker 1 00:20:20 You get a crash and then your adrenals are gonna wake you up because it's gonna release cortisol due to a lowering of the blood pressure and boom. Now you're awake. And the problem there is a lot of people will just make it worse by staring at the clock, staring at the clock instead of, uh, neutralizing that blood sugar with a protein. That's why I tell my patients either look, get you a protein bar or even a boiled egg, get up and go eat that. Cuz you're not gonna go back to sleep. It just gets worse. So longer. You stare at the clock, right? So another one of those 12 or 13 things that I wrote down, I think you mentioned also to, um, irritability, remember how you said how irritable you would be. Yeah. And that's another side effect that we don't realize that we're actually trying to take the edge off if you will. But I found myself a lot more irritable and I, that sort of, as you were speaking about earlier, it just definitely cut way back on my irritability. Speaker 2 00:21:09 Yeah. So drinking more for irritability is really perpetuating the problem in the long term. Yeah. I'm glad you said that about the intake of protein at the end of the night, kind of helping to offset that blood sugar drop. I eventually developed kind of like a hack for, uh, after I'd gone out for night of drinking. If I remember before bed, I would do it then, but usually it would end up being the next morning I would make, I had a special hangover smoothie and I'll share that recipe. And the show knows, what I would do is I would get four stalk celery, one cucumber piece of ginger to kind of help with that stomach ache. Mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, half a lemon juice. I would do three cups of chopped spinach. Then I would put two green apples all in a blender and I would put two scoops of protein Speaker 1 00:21:55 Protein. Now what kind of protein do? Speaker 2 00:21:59 Uh, I don't think I knew about it then, but what I use now is veggie complete protein. I use vanilla and it tastes really good with all that. But veggie completes a standard process. Protein. That's just a higher quality. Yeah. It doesn't have any lactose or it doesn't have any way. So it's not gonna give you that bloated, gassy feeling. Yes. But I blend all that together. The Vitamix is gonna make it nice and smooth, but really any blender will do. And you know, sometimes I still drink, this is just my lunch. I just feel so much better. I've got good energy, no brain fog. I'd feel more energetic when I drink this smoothie. And I I'll often just drink it for lunch. Speaker 1 00:22:31 You feel better. Right? The energy's there. Okay. Is it coincidental or no, it's not. It's actually what you put into the body made the difference. Yep. I had the same thing. I had this, my nutritional kick that you get from there. One of my favorite ones is I call it my, my ideal bite or my perfect bite. It's um, simple thing that I make and it's um, it's so simple. It takes well three minutes. Right? Cause I usually, you know, you love to consume the boiled egg I do as well. I think you got three of 'em sitting on your desk right over there. When I usually, when I boil eggs, I might boil up a half a dozen. I'm sorry I have 'em in the fridge. So my perfect bite is to take a boiled egg, put it in a small bowl, cut me an avocado in half, put that in with that boiled egg, maybe split the boiled egg in half, then I'll take two strips of bacon. Speaker 1 00:23:17 All right. So listen, I'm getting fat on fat on fat with a little bit of protein, right? And then I'll take my Colomo olives, the ish colored ones. You know, I put about a half a dozen of those in the bowl. Then I'd take some Fe of cheese and I break that up and I put that in the bowl and then I just smothered it. Olive oil, salt and pepper. And dude, that is the bite. That sounds so good. And you know what? It took every bit of just a minute or two it, a total meal. And am I hungry for the next two or three hours? No. Cause I got all that fat in there and the energy associated with, cause it didn't Bo me down cause I didn't throw a carbohydrate in there. Right. So that is like my uh, that's my perfect food. My super bite Speaker 2 00:23:56 Had about zero impact on your blood sugar too. I bet it was completely stable. Single. Speaker 1 00:24:00 Yep. Bingo. And of course you know who doesn't love bacon. Come on. Right? There's something wrong with you there. Speaker 2 00:24:06 Yes. There's this guy on Instagram called his name is Jason dot Whit rock. Have you ever seen those continuous glucose monitors that you wear on the back of your arm? Yeah. Yeah. And it connects to an app and it tracks your blood sugar all throughout the day. So this guy, he just eats something by itself. And then two hours later, he looks at his glucose monitor and he tells you exactly what happened. So he's tested almond milk, he's tested, pop tarts, he tests whole milk. He tests skinny, pop popcorn, Chick-fil-A watermelon, all these different things. And then he tells you exactly what impact this has on his blood sugar. So you can tell you if it's a good food deed or not. So obviously things like avocado have zero impact on the blood sugar. Things like Gatorade are gonna run it way up there. And of course, everybody thinks Gatorade's a health drink. Meanwhile, it's spiking your blood sugar to the moon. Sure. It's basically a soft drink, a soda masked as a health cocktail. So it's, it's an arsonist disguise as a firefighter. Speaker 1 00:25:05 Nicely split. Speaker 2 00:25:06 Yeah. Think about all the, uh, the little league teams and the Peewee football teams telling the kids, you know, oh, you gotta drink some Gatorade. You'll prevent your cramping. Meanwhile, they're just basically telling 'em to, to drink straight sugar. Speaker 1 00:25:18 No, the average person who's getting up and using that is, uh, is their water in the middle of the night, which is also what we were talking about earlier with the alcohol dropping. When I said, get you a pro a protein bar or a boiled egg, well, why not get up and get a chug orange juice? Well, cuz you're gonna go right through the same thing. You're gonna balance your blood sugar for a little bit. You're actually gonna spike it. You may get back to sleep, but you're gonna wake up again in another hour or so with the same problem. So the key there is to keep that glucose level on an even kill, which is why I say do the protein. That way you can get back to sleep and probably make it through it till the morning time, which is a good point in the past. That's what I used to do. I'd get up at two o'clock in the morning and chug me some Gatorade, right with that. I'd get the bloating associated with it as well. And uh, the effect was just not as consistent as it was with the protein. That's why I do the protein. It's gonna bounce the blood sugar for you. You won't be hungry. You can go back to sleep and stay asleep. Speaker 2 00:26:10 Something I've always wondered about is, you know how everyone says one alcohol makes them this like tequila makes me feel this or whiskey makes me angry or vodka makes me this. I've always wondered if, if that's actually true or if people just feel that way, because if alcohol is alcohol, does the, does the packaging actually have that effect? Do you think? Or does, is that just in their head? Speaker 1 00:26:32 <laugh> you know, it's funny you ask that cuz we all sometimes use that. Excuse, you know? Um, it makes me easier to hang around people Speaker 2 00:26:42 <laugh> yeah. Say whiskey makes me frisky. That's Speaker 1 00:26:45 Right. I imagine me this comedian, I heard one time he was, uh, you know, he says, um, he's talking about how he was at a bar or something one night and somebody mentioned to him, oh, you know, I just, I don't like the taste of alcohol. I don't like alcohol. I just don't. I just, I don't have a taste for it. And he, he said, you know, he said, you think I like tequila? Ugh, whiskey, you think I like whiskey that stuff's horrible, but accused me from killing somebody. <laugh> so it's we have our excuses. We'll find our way to get ahold of our vice. Sometimes Speaker 2 00:27:19 It's something that we have, uh, culture of consuming for so long though, you know, like last year, me and, uh, my buddy Harrison that, you know, and, and Katie and um, another friend of ours went on a trip to Belize and we went on this tour of a cave, uh, called ATM. And it was an old, it was a Mayan cave. The leaders of the tribe would go into this cave and they were perform rituals and they would do human sacrifices. I know. And, but they found all these VAs in their, in these big containers and they were what they would hold alcohol in. So they would go in the cave, get drunk, make shadow figures on the wall, try to get the, the water gods to send them more rain. And they would kill a kill a couple of kids in there. So it was just, you know, a regular night, right? Speaker 1 00:28:05 Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like a night in college there with the exception of the kids. Of course. Thank goodness we have, but yeah. <laugh> but the figures on the wall. Yeah. I can remember that a time or two think about it. I mean, beer was actually, it was designed as a food. Right. I think the monks made it back in Ireland or the yeah, smart guys, but I mean, that's what they, they consumed that as food. That was a carbohydrate that was their liquid bread. So it's got its municipal purposes. I know that we can find a way to, to work that in there somehow, you know? Sure. Yeah. Um, that's one thing I tell about, uh, you know, let's talk about the beer gut, right? Is it really a beer? Good. I tell to tell my patients, well, you know, is it, is that beer or is that bread when it comes to the carbohydrate? You gotta think about this. Now you either drink it or you eat it, but really can't do both. Speaker 2 00:28:52 And yeah. Well think about how much yeast beer contains, you know, of course it's gonna blow, blow your gut. Yeah. And what you know, that can just feed from chronic Canda, other issues that you have. Speaker 1 00:29:02 But I know a lot of people who drink quite a bit of beer and don't have that gut. So to say that that is a beer belly, and now let's, let's call that a carbohydrate belly. Because again, here you can have non beer drinkers can match a beer belly just by any day. So Speaker 2 00:29:17 Sure. And, and that just goes back to how everybody's, body's different. You know, everyone's physiology is a little bit different. Everyone can metabolize alcohol differently, Speaker 1 00:29:24 Different. Speaker 2 00:29:24 Sure. And even things like caffeine, some people are slow caffeine. Metabolizers like myself, some people are fast caffeine. Metabolizers like my mom, she can drink a coffee at 5:00 PM and go to sleep at nine, have no problem. But if I drink coffee past about 10:00 AM, I'll be up all night. Me too. Speaker 1 00:29:41 I have the same way, but I like mine in the morning. But, uh, yeah. And that's, that's the way I've been since the beginning of time. I don't care if it's DEC decaf. It, I just, that doesn't fly either. Speaker 2 00:29:52 They say the cure for a hangover is a cup of black coffee, but let's unpack that one. Think about what coffee does it dehydrates you. So if part of what you're feeling the morning after a big night of drinking is caused by dehydration and detox is drinking another liquid that's going to, to dehydrate you even more, really gonna fix the problem. Speaker 1 00:30:10 Yeah. And same thing with the shower. What's that gonna do? Why it's gonna make you a wet drunk. That's about it. <laugh>, you know, Speaker 2 00:30:16 A wet drunks better than a dry drunk. We can all agree on that. Speaker 1 00:30:19 <laugh> but if you're gonna be a wet drunk, let it be because you were in the shower. Okay. Um, an old roommate of mine don't know what I mean by that one? Um, Speaker 2 00:30:27 Yeah, not, yeah. Well, me too. I have this buddy in college and he, when he would drink, he would sweat so bad. We would be at a party and his hair would just be drenched, buddy. He was just, I feel like, did you just take a shower? And he is like, no, man, he is had a beer. <laugh> Speaker 1 00:30:43 That's an allergic reaction pal. You might wanna lay off on that one. You'd be like, Hey, do you have an extra shirt Speaker 2 00:30:50 I can put on man, I've soaked through this one already. Like, man, it's nine o'clock buddy. We got a long way to go. Speaker 1 00:30:54 I had a roommate, one at got in college that this, this guy and this, the only time he'd wet to bed, that would be the only time. And you know, we usually knew when it was Saturday morning because you know, the mattress would be outside <laugh> it was like, okay, well we know what day it is now, but God bless him. Uh, you know, uh, thank God for the pins. But, um, <laugh> I will not shout out a name. Uh, Speaker 2 00:31:23 I'm sure they appreciate that. But we had a party at an apartment. I lived at one time in college. I, I believe I was a freshman because I still had friends in high school and, and they CA one of them came to stay with me. So we had a bunch of people over everyone was, was, was drinking and, uh, ended up passing out and he was just gonna crash on my couch. So I go to bed and wake up the next morning and he had already cleared out. And man, my, my apartment just reeked. It just smelled like, Ugh, awful. And I couldn't find this worth of smell anywhere. So all morning I'm looking around like, what is that? Is it old food? Like, what am I smelling? Eventually I found out that in the night he had woken up, pulled the couch out, away from the wall, thrown up behind it and pushed the couch back to the wall. Speaker 1 00:32:11 Whoa. Oh. Speaker 2 00:32:13 Thinking no one was ever gonna know it was him. Oh yeah. But I'll tell you what, buddy. I know it was you. I still love you, but I know it was you. I hope you're doing great. Speaker 1 00:32:20 <laugh> oh Lord, man. I got one that went along that same line. Okay. It was, um, college again. Um, they used to call 'em Mexican nightmares. Tell me if you remember this. Okay. Covo tequila with a yay. Your monster shot mixed Speaker 2 00:32:36 A hundred percent. Oh, Speaker 1 00:32:38 So anyway, we having a party. It's not a large one, 10 people or so at the department suddenly said partygoer has disappeared. And um, we're looking for Danny so hour or so later we find him. He is in my closet, passed out. Okay. So we revive him and I guess a couple weeks later or so I remember, um, I was putting out a pair of boots that were in my closet. Right. And I set the foot in and it was like, whoa, no, Speaker 2 00:33:12 Not good. Not good. Speaker 1 00:33:14 Well, Danny had gotten sick of my closet <laugh> and he found him, I guess what he thought was a bucket. And that was my boot. And uh, yeah. So shout out, Danny boy. Yes. Yes. That was gosh. That's 20 years ago, brother. I won't forget ya. Speaker 2 00:33:33 Oh man. I, I have several alcohols that I can just smell or even think about and get that visceral reaction in my gut. One of them being Jagermeister, the other one being Rumple min. That meant one. The other one fireball. Those three, if I smell 'em I'll feel like I need to throw Speaker 1 00:33:50 Up. I'm afraid. I'd probably get asked acid reflux if I smelled the fireball. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which SWO like again, like again, you know, yeah. Those days though, Speaker 2 00:33:57 I think that's my body being intelligent and telling me like, look buddy, you know, you're not in college anymore. You gotta, you gotta throw in the towel. So I'm gonna let you smell this and you're gonna feel sick and that's, that's how we're gonna go. Speaker 1 00:34:08 Oh yeah. It's just, uh, I guess something we've all got our timeline, so yeah, but not an easy thing, not an easy thing to put up on the shelf, brother. I will promise you that. And um, yeah. And it's, uh, it takes a lot. It, um, you, you gotta have a heck of, um, some self discipline put that on the shelf a hundred percent. It is. I mean, it's, uh, you know, there's a reason why it's a very addictive substance and it's a reason why it's, um, it's a major, major issue in our society. Speaker 2 00:34:42 Do you think it's more or less addicted than cigarettes? Speaker 1 00:34:45 Well, I'm not a cigarette smoker. I know they say nicotine is really tough. Nicotine does the same thing. I think the scale level's about the same. I think it rises dopamine. Let's say like a hundred points in alcohol raises about the same. Something's a little bit less, but uh, they've actually tested that. So I would say it had to be probably just about as bad as alcohol. Some people say it's worse. Some people say truthfully that nicotine is worse than something like an opioid, like even heroin. And of course we know the opioid problem in this country is just it's through the roof. It's just absolutely probably the worst thing going on right now. And it's real, you know? Um, so yeah, I, but to be honest with you, chase, I don't think anything's worse than sugar. You know, I've seen a lot of people kick the bucket on alcohol, which is a sugar. Yes, it is. I've seen them kick, uh, nicotine on down the road. But look in today's world, man, you know, with between type two diabetes and obesity and Alzheimer's and all these other sugar related, uh, protocols, I've seen, a lot of people can come off a lot of that stuff, but can't get rid of the carbohydrate gut. Speaker 2 00:35:50 So think about what the big things are that do spike dopamine, you know, you got things like social media porn. Yep. Drugs, alcohol, gambling, cigarettes, and sugar. And of those, I would say that sugar, at least personally sugar is, is the biggest one for me. And it's in everything is as is, you know, you go to the grocery store, even something that tastes salty. If it's processed food, it's got sugar and it go look at a Ritz cracker, it's a cracker, it's not a cookie, but it's gonna be loaded with sugar. Sugar's found in everything. And that's because it's so addictive. You know, that's one way that they can sell so much of this, of these Franken foods. You know, these processed foods that you find in boxes with long ingredients lists of the grocery store, they're all gonna have high amounts of sugar, whether it be high fructose corn syrup or other forms of sugar that they can slide in there under the radar. That's why they say to stay around the perimeter of the grocery store. You know, you got the, the sections with the vegetables, the meats foods that are, that are real, uh, foods that don't have ingredients lists, foods that either walked on the earth or grew on the earth and those are not found in a box. Speaker 1 00:36:56 Well, let's look at another thing that is kind of like swept under the rug. We can count if you will. The deaths associated with cirrhosis of the liver from alcohol. We know that cigarettes now are direct cause of early death cancers associated with the lungs, right? So you look at these and you can, you could add those up if you would. And even overdose is associated with certain drugs, but if you added all of those up and, uh, a yearly count of the deaths from those, they would not equal the deaths associated with sugar in one way or the other, whether it was cardiovascular disease, type two diabetes, these are direct correlations of a sugar handling problem, which was their demise. So that encompasses all the other addictions together. I just tell you how powerful that is, but you know, it's an interesting thing. Uh, psychiatrist, uh, read, uh, GA matte, uh, a book that he had, uh, out a couple years ago, talked about the, those dopamine, um, addictions, and a lot of those things that you just mentioned. Speaker 1 00:37:58 That's the say for example, they would up your dopamine, alcohol being the same thing and tobacco a level of about a hundred, very interesting crack cocaine elevates dopamine like into the 15 hundreds. Okay. So do you see these addicts, for example, they are hooked rather. So if you just imagine that buzz that you might get off of alcohol, or even an opioid, for example, take that and multiply that times 10 with crack or meth. That's why these people, they don't even shower. I mean, God bless them, but they don't, they don't even have any interest in, uh, uh, sexual, um, contact of any site because that brings them one 10th of the pleasure that they get from the hit off that pipe, the sad truth. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a it a terror. And then Speaker 2 00:38:52 It's like that big mouth study, you know, the one where they, they had two, two mice in a cage and they offered one of them or they offered them cocaine or they offered them food. Mm-hmm <affirmative> and they, but they both picked cocaine hands down. Speaker 1 00:39:07 Yep. Yep. Just that that's it. Speaker 2 00:39:09 And I'm glad you mentioned that about type two diabetes because yeah, I think it is. It's one of the most prevalent causes of death in America and it's growing fast, especially juvenile onset diabetes. But one of the common myths that I hear about type two diabetes is that it runs in their family or that it's genetic. What I tell patients that I work with with type two diabetes is that diabetes runs in your family because no one runs in your family. A lot of times they're they live a sedentary lifestyle. And, and I tell them that it's actually diets that run in a family. Most of the time, people eat the same way their parents ate. Speaker 2 00:39:46 That is what causes type two diabetes. It's not a genetic component. It might be how you're raised, but it's not your actual gene that goes back to epigenetics. That epigenetics says that your jeans are the gun, but your lifestyle is what pulls the trigger. You can turn jeans on and off depending on your lifestyle, whether that's what you eat, whether it's, if you're doing cold plunges or working out in the gym or going to the sauna, you can turn jeans on and off. And you're not sealed to a certain fate just because your parents might have had something like type two diabetes. Speaker 1 00:40:18 It's expressing that gene, you don't, we, we have the gene, we don't have to express it. And Gama in the, I think it was the same book explains sort of that same situation. When you look at epigenetics now in our country in a lot of Western countries, Hey, it's a way out that we don't have to hold our own self responsible. Oh, well, I'm genetically predisposed to that. So therefore I don't really have control over my own self. And that's the way society can be, Hey, find me an out. I'll take it. Don't hold me responsible for my own health. That's sad because if they can throw it over on science and make it a scientific issue, then, um, due to lack of self discipline, a lot of people do it every time, Speaker 2 00:41:03 100%. Well, I'll tell you, Joey, you mentioned opioids. And that got me thinking that I would have to say that that is what keeps me going as far as this type of work that we do is because I think about our patients. And I think about people that we work with and I think about what is the alternative to complimentary and holistic healthcare. It's the medical system that oftentimes will just try to mask pain with a pill. And I think about opioids and, and I know people, everyone knows people who have had negative effects or they've become addicted to them. And of course there's a place for them and my best friends and anesthesiologists. And he works with patients who are so far beyond what we do, who have had multiple surgeries and who that's pretty much their only option. And I think about our patients and that's why I like to do this is because if we can prevent them from having to turn to opioids or prevent them from having to have surgery, then that keeps me going. Speaker 1 00:42:05 That's a, that's a major addiction. And some people I've, you know, I've heard stories about a kid playing football, gets a sprain in the knee, goes to the doctor and they put him on opioids in his first pill. He said, I was addicted from then on. He said, I'm not coming off of this. I love that feeling. The interesting thing about the opioid, it works along the same way. It's actually not, it's not like an anti-inflammatory it, uh, isn't really even a pain pill. It releases the chemical in the body, which makes you basically say, eh, everything's cool. Everything's all right. Until it wears off. Right? Sort of like the same thing with the kid, Hey, my opioid receptor said, go on out and play. You're fine. As adults, it works sort of along the same line. So it's not really fixing anything. So therefore it's kind of taking your mind off of the symptom. Speaker 1 00:42:55 So once that wears off and each time, the way I understand it, it wears off a little quicker and then they need a little bit more to get that same feeling. And then here it comes, here, comes a snowball. So sometimes somebody who maybe never had a desire to be addicted, something like that comes long. It's a chemical reaction in the body. Boom. Some people hooked. And like we were talking about earlier, the kid who said 17, first time he took one doctor wrote him a script of 30, 30 for a sprain knee practice. He took, it said, that's it I'm hooked. Speaker 2 00:43:26 Yeah, I know we keep talking about it, but we need to get Harrison on to talk about what he does with pain management. And because like I said, you know, if this doesn't work for a lot of people, that could be the next step. So we need to get him on and, and highlight some of what he does because what he does is super important. You know, it's, without it, a lot of the people that he works with would be absolutely miserable. I mean, they've had Roz in their back and they've got, they've got issues that are just beyond what you and I prefer to work with. But, uh, you know, he also has that ketamine clinic where he does ketamine infusions. And that's more for psychological issues like anxiety and depression. And, um, his, I see his business partner in the gym every morning. Speaker 2 00:44:11 Um, John and they tell me they have really amazing results with that with ketamine because they can, they can get a ketamine infusion and then the patient can undergo a therapy session while they're under the effects of that. And it can basically allow them to open up and feel more comfortable talking about and releasing past traumas that maybe they had kept suppressed for so long. And, and a lot of them have said that after one or two infusions, they feel completely back to normal and the depression's gone. So that'd be, that'd be cool to talk about. Yeah. Well, let's wrap this one up, Dr. Jay, thanks everybody for tuning in. We'll be back in a week. That was a nice trip back in time. Yeah. Have a great week.

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